Birthday Special!

Hello everyone, welcome to the Seth and Therapy Podcast. Have you ever considered going to therapy and you ended up not going? My question is why? In my humble opinion, I believe everyone can benefit from therapy. In fact, I believe everybody should go at least once in their life.

My name is Yvento Hemi, and I'm a psychologist. This podcast tells you all about everyday cases with everyday people who have everyday problems and difficulties, and sometimes they carry around really deep wounds. These are their stories.

Because I have no idea how to do this. Usually I'm the host. Today you are the host.

Yeah, and uh before we get started, I want to ask you what got you to ask me to do this interview with you.

So the idea is basically that I got so many messages in my last podcast I was recording with my friend Muna. And in the end, she actually said that I should do a podcast episode about my me and uh my journey and how I became who I am.

And surprisingly, I got so many messages, people telling me I have to do this. And at first I was like, nah, not really. The podcast isn't about me and it shouldn't be about me. But then I thought about it.

So yeah, um, the first of January is my birthday, and the Fridays, uh, Friday episodes come. You of course they come on Friday, but the next Friday is going to be the first of January, and I thought, okay, let's do it a birthday special.

And then I thought, who could do this best? And that was definitely my friend Salma. Because, first of all, well, I think we have a very unique story, but apart from that, she is also she's also part of our field, she is uh um counselor herself, and yeah, I thought who else would be actually you're perfect for that.

I was gonna say, you know, of course, uh when you asked me to do this, I was very happy to be a part of uh on one on one end. I get to actually put you on the spot, which I know makes you very uncomfortable, which I hate.

You don't like being the center of attention, you like yes, I know. You like being uh behind behind the scenes. Uh so I definitely think it's a great idea, and thank you to the people who asked you to do this.

Uh you know, it's funny because people tend to think that as therapists, we're not human beings, right? We don't have anxieties or feelings or traumas, right? And this is a great example of that and a way for you to show that you two are a human being who goes through the exact same struggles your clients go through, right?

Yes.

And on a different note, we have been talking about doing work together for such a long time. So I think this is a great way to start, and then we can take it from here later on and see how this will unfold in the future.

So I think Iman, just to get us started, tell me a little bit about you and your background. Of course, I I know quite a bit about you as one of your close friends, but um maybe your audience doesn't know much about you, your background, uh, how you got into this field.

Uh give us a bit of uh Iman uh insights.

Yeah, so yeah. Uh uh I was born and raised in Germany. I think um it's fair to say that most of my audience, or many of my odd in my audience, know this already. Um of course, many notice my accent.

Um, I think I have I do still I I still do have a German accent. You are actually the one who always says that. Um you always keep reminding me. Uh but apart from that, yeah, I was born and raised in Germany.

Um my parents um immigrated to Germany uh before before we were born. And um I for the longest time I didn't really know how to define myself because for some people I'm Egyptian, for others I'm German, and then there's this third party that cannot really define what I am.

And for the longest time I actually enjoyed this part of me that was uh neither that nor the other. But I think when I hit puberty, I went into a really bad identity crisis, and this is where everything started basically.

I remember back in school, I loved reading about psychology, and I was so interested in the field, but I also remember that I was really bad at math, not because I was bad at math, but because I had a really, really racist um math teacher.

And I uh for one day he came and he asked us what we wanted to be when once we finished school or what we what we wanted to study. So I said, I would like to study psychology, and he said, There is no way that you're going to make it, and there is no way that you're going to be um able to study psychology because you're so bad at math.

So I took it at heart, and once I graduated, I remember toying with the idea um to study something else. I did so actually, and then I was like, nah, you know what? Screw this, I will not do that.

So I went to psychology into psychology anyway because I always knew that this is something I wanted to do. So if you asked me what you know, when you ask kids what do you want to be when you grow up?

I always knew that I wanted to be a psychologist. There was no other profession in my mind that made sense to me.

Is it do you think it's true then what they say that we become counselors sort of to resolve our own um whatever you want to call it, maybe childhood traumas or our own uh challenges uh as human beings?

Yes, and no, there are definitely a lot of people who start this profession because of their own trauma and because they want to understand themselves better. But I also think there is a great um the the majority of people who go into psychology have um other interests because I think people always believe, or the most people believe when you study psychology, that at the end of the day you will will become a therapist.

And this is not true. So many people study psychology, and in the end, they can become whatever they like. And um, but yes, I think the majority of therapists, I think I need to make this distinction distinction. Um uh the majority of therapists, one way or another, wanted to understand this themselves better, but also like to understand people.

Right, right. And uh where did you end up studying? Did you study in Germany? I studied in Germany, I studied uh in my hometown actually.

Okay, so you kind of made this decision when you were quite young, when you were a teenager and you followed through with it. Um, where do you feel your career is at now as a psychologist? Wow, that's a very interesting question.

Because honestly, I have no idea. I have been in the field now for more than uh almost 15 years now, if not more, because I've been doing a lot of internships and working at um counseling centers and uh social work centers.

Uh, I think I have I was successful when it comes to learning the tools of the field and understanding how to um use these tools and give them to other people. However, um I believe that I'm pretty much at a crossroads right now because I also feel that there is something more that I want to do, something different.

And I think part of that is um not part of it. I think uh this is why I started the podcast, because I really wanted to try something new.

Yeah, and we'll talk about the podcast in a little bit, but I wanted to ask in your journey as a therapist, what do you feel were some of the defining moments for you?

Well, I would say pretty much in the beginning, when I started to learn about psychology or when I started working with people, I realized that the field is not as simple as I used to think because it's not something that you read in books.

Of course, you have a lot of books that help you, and you get so many models and ideas and therapy techniques and approaches, but at the end of the day, when you are in the room with a patient, everything changes.

And you have to learn as you go. And I think the only other field where this is true, I think it's medicine because you you you learn about special um circumstances or diseases or trauma or whatever it may be, and then you go into the situation itself, and then you realize it's not always like in the books.

In fact, it's hardly ever like in the books.

And do you think that every client's experience in therapy is unique? I do really feel like do you see patterns in human behavior? What do you think it is?

So, yes and no, I really do believe that everybody's journey is unique, um, everybody's story is unique. But, and this is also what I say to so many uh patients of mine, that they would be surprised to know how many people feel exactly the same way.

So, on some level, um pattern um can be similar, um pathologies are similar, but the story itself, how you got to where you are, um, the situations in your life that made you are unique to the person itself.

Right. A lot of people are quite hesitant to get into therapy because maybe they don't know what to expect. So, from your experience as a therapist, what would you say people can expect in a session with you?

I think it's important to remember that when you go into therapy or when you uh seek a therapist, that you need to understand that you have to click with that person. So it's not like you're going to a dentist and you open your mouth and that dentist is doing work on you and you hardly ever have a conversation with the dentist.

Um with therapist, it's something completely different. You have to click. And if you don't click with your therapist, it doesn't mean that this person or this therapist is a bad therapist. It just means you don't click, you don't vibe.

And I think the idea is that people are so afraid to be psychoanalyzed or um you know screened in some way that they um actually decide they will not do that. But it's in fact different. It's like you're going to a friend, but this friend is not your friend, or this person is not your friend.

It's more like this natural neutral kanva that you can fill however you please. There is no judgment, you can say whatever you want to say, and the therapist basically helps you to make sense um of how you feel and what you think to find meaning, more or less.

Yeah, the the way the way I always describe it is going into therapy is like looking into a mirror where the therapist reflects back to you what they see in you, um, and they just organize it a little bit better.

Correct, exactly. That's a nice way to put it.

And what do you think, you know, because you didn't answer my question. I see, I see you're already trying to get away from being uh the center of attention right now. But what what can people expect in therapy with you, or what is it that makes you different than any other therapist?

What makes me different? Yeah, that's interesting because um, as I said, I I grew up in a setting that was very racist and I have a different background, and at the same time, um people come to me, I understand different contexts very well, whatever they may be.

I understand what struggle with own identity means, I understand um what's like to not really fit in and try to find um your own way and to survive in that sense. So I think my life story, generally speaking, helps me in my profession because I see so many different people, but at the same time, I can relate to so many stories, even though they were not my stories.

I can relate to um different feelings and um the sense of crisis that people may have throughout their life.

Right. So I I guess if if I understand what you're saying, uh it's sort of that you bring your own human humane experiences into therapy in a sense, uh, and therefore are able to extend that empathy to your clients.

Yes, definitely. But I would also say it's always the combination with the tools. It's um first and foremost, I need to say this. I think when you go to therapy and you just feel understood, it's part of it's half of the of the journey, basically.

If you feel understood and accommodated and um basically it's a soft place to fall, even if you have done so many mistakes. And when once you open that door, you can safely explore what you can do with your life.

And if that person who is exploring the situations of your life um is empathizing with you and understanding and giving you the opportunity to be yourself without judgment, um, then you will almost always be successful.

Yeah. And I think you mentioned something quite interesting, uh, which is your cultural background, is not just like any two mixed backgrounds, because Germany and Egypt are almost polar opposites when it comes to the culture, uh, the expression of language, etc.

Um, I'm assuming you do speak uh Deutsch, Arabic, and English as well, right?

Yes, I do. Yeah, so German is my um mother tongue, it's my native language. I think, dream, count, uh, calculate, you know, all the big decisions in my life, I believe, are pretty much in German, you know. Um and yeah, I feel to so my nationality is German to a great extent.

I feel that I am German. However, I also know that when I am in a very wide German context, that I don't really belong. I can make it work. It's not like that. I cannot make it work in situations where I'm just surrounded by Germans who are well, I don't want to use the the words pure because German impure, the combination of that has very bad historical um, yeah.

Well, but but you know what I mean. If I'm in a context where there are only white German people, I can make it work, but I wouldn't feel comfortable, so I wouldn't remain there for a long time.

Yeah. So what I was wondering about is, uh and I know a little bit about the nature of the work that you've done. You've done quite a bit of telehealth uh even before the pandemic. Um, most of your clients were you were seeing online.

Um, so I know you have clients from all over the world. What has the diversity of clients taught you?

Well, uh, pretty much that we are all human beings, and on on there is one specific level that makes us all the same. And um I learned very quickly, but I think even before I started therapy, to look beyond the appearance of someone, to look beyond of beyond um someone's experience in life, just understanding where they stand, uh understanding where they are and fetching them exactly where they are.

You say diversity, what has it taught you? I mean, that's that's a difficult question because I don't define it like that anymore. When I started, definitely I thought, oh, there is uh one specific group that isn't served with therapy enough.

And these were the people who were mostly like me. And that's still the case. However, I now know that there is no specific group of people who need therapy the most. In fact, everybody does at some point in their life.

You've done quite a bit of what we call in the field clinical work, right? Which is seeing clients in a traditional sort of therapy environment. Uh, but now your career has taken a bit of a transition. Tell me more about that.

Yeah, definitely. My career started out to be very clinic, but the longer I worked in that, the more I realized that I am um leaning towards doing other type of work. And um so I think what people need to understand is that I started my career in Germany before I moved to Dubai.

And this is where we both uh met, by the way. And I worked in Dubai for quite a bit of time, and then I moved to Amsterdam. And by the time I moved to Amsterdam, I realized that I grew very tired of the one one-on-one setting, but it was still something that I felt very much I needed to do.

So it was an inner progress or process that I had inside of me where I believed that okay, I know that I don't want to do this work for the end of my life, or at least not like that, but I still wanted to figure out what I want to do.

And since I moved to the Netherlands, I have done a lot of different things. So I have done, uh I have shifted almost completely my one-on-one sessions to telehealth, which means I do um online sessions. Um, I have done workshops with companies, and um, I've been working on courses that I wanted to provide.

So, yeah, it's it's taking taking a bit of a shift now because um I think I want to appeal to a larger group of people instead of just talking to one person at a time.

Right. So, how did this idea of doing the podcast come about? Uh, why this format, as opposed to maybe doing like a live show or something like that?

So um the reality is I love podcasts, I have always have, even before they became so well, it's a very trendy thing to do now. Everybody wants to start a podcast, but I've been listening listening to podcasts for the longest time.

And um and then I stumbled upon different kinds of psychology podcasts that I listened to. Some were good, some others were okay, and then there were others that were excellent, and I was like, hey, I want to do that.

But at the same time, in the back of my head, I always had the idea that I also wanted to do something visual, so meaning I wanted to do some kind of uh content that is video um related with video YouTube videos, maybe or something like that.

But I didn't feel quite confident yet to do that, so I started with the podcast. This is basically the honest on answer.

You're absolutely right. I think there's a trend uh with podcasts. Um, but how does it work? How do you get your clients to come on the show or sorry on your podcast? Um, tell me a little bit about that.

Well, so basically, um the thing is I always ask those clients to be on my podcast who have finished therapy and who feel comfortable sharing their story. Because if you are in the middle of therapy, it's almost well, it's very likely that you will not feel you don't you will not feel quite accomplished yet to say, okay, I am actually taking power of my story and I will share it.

So basically, people I have concluded therapy with, I um I approach them and I ask if they're interested. And some are interested, others are not. And I'm actually very grateful to everyone here uh agreed to to record with me because I think there's so much value um in stories like that, because it also gives them a sense of being heard, but at the same time, people listening to it will think, hey, I actually feel the same

way. So yeah, it's always like this conversation I have with my patients after they leave, or even shortly, uh shortly after they leave or or finish, or just before they're going to have their last few sessions. Um yeah, we take it from there usually.

Okay. And would you say that listening to your podcast could be a substitute for therapy? Absolutely not. But it's you know, you're seeing real clients or real clients talking about what they've experienced. How is it different? Than real therapy.

Yeah. I feel I need to um elaborate a little bit what I mean by absolutely not. So yes, it's it's you you can you can definitely listen to an episode and feel like you you get a sense of what you're struggling with.

At the same time, it's not enough to just listen to one episode of someone who has gone through the journey basically and came out the other side, you know, made it, if you will. You can listen to stories and you can feel that you are relating to them, identifying things you go through yourself.

However, if you really struggle, you will get the most benefit when you go to therapy yourself. Right, right.

And what advice would you have for someone who might get triggered by uh something some one of your clients might say in a podcast? Uh, maybe it's an experience they've gone through or they're still going through, and they get triggered by it.

How do you advise them to navigate through that if they want to continue to come back and listen to your podcast?

Uh, you mean if they listen to episode and then they get triggered so much that they actually stop and don't want to continue? Yeah, I understand. Yeah. Yeah, I am aware that this is something that can happen. And uh that's difficult.

But what I advise is that you should pause when you feel triggered, really triggered, and you feel something is just, you know, there's this wave of emotions coming over you. I would stop the podcast or stop listening and then just try to explore why you reacted the way you reacted.

I think people need to understand you get triggered because of something that happened to you. You don't get triggered because of the episode itself or someone saying something to you. It's not about the moment itself, it is about the feelings that are stuck inside and that you haven't explored yet.

So this is why your reaction is so intense. Definitely sit down and try to find out what it is. That sometimes needs um help or needs guidance or someone helping you to understand why you're so triggered.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Uh, you know, even on Instagram, and we'll talk about your Instagram in a bit, uh, there's a lot of these therapy accounts, and they put a disclaimer saying uh we're here to share educational content. It is not a substitution for therapy.

If you feel that any of the content might be triggering for you or might be similar to something you're currently experiencing, uh we advise you to kind of explore this further in therapy. Yes. Uh yeah. Um, and you know, I wanted to ask you this question.

Um, if I'm someone who's never been to therapy, I'm not really familiar with it, uh, it's quite overwhelming to choose what kind of help you might seek because there's life coaches and hypnotists and astrologists and therapists, and even within therapists, there are so many considerations.

Do you want someone from the same cultural background, older or younger, male or female? Uh, do they use this thing called CBT that I've kind of heard of? How do you navigate that process and choose uh what might be a right fit for you?

That's a very good question. I'm actually glad you asked that. So, yes, um I was quite surprised to see that people didn't even know the difference between um psychotherapist, psychologist, and counselor, maybe sometimes, and life coach. And I need to highlight here that because I'm going to speak about that now in detail, but um, life coaches are not bad people to go to.

If you have so if you if you have a problem that is maybe career related, or that is something as simple as not knowing if you should move or not, or if if you you you know want to start something new, but you don't quite, you haven't got gathered the courage yet to start something like that, whatever it may be, a life coach could be a good person to to consult.

However, a life coach will never, never, and I really need to stress this out, never replaced a trained counselor, psychologist, or psychotherapist. And they simply don't have the clinical tools to understand um how severe a situation can be, when medication is necessary, when they need to consult with someone else in order to give a client everything they need.

Um, I will say though that I have met excellent life coaches who know exactly about who know exactly where their limitations are and what they have to do once they hit such a limit, and they almost always refer to someone who is a therapist and knows a little bit more about depression, let's say.

Yeah. Uh yes, there are so many options out there where to start. So what I tell people is yes, definitely, there are so many people out there, and it's sometimes really hard to reach out to everyone, and people always just, you know, when they start to reach out to one person, and when that person is, let's say, full, uh, doesn't have any um slots available anymore, they give up.

But you are in charge of your own mental health. So when you feel you need to talk to someone, it's it's very dis discouraging to reach out to a therapist and they tell you, sorry, I don't have space, I don't have the time.

It's some kind of rejection at this point because it took so much courage from you to reach out to someone, right? Um, but I would say try again, make sure that you know that reaching out to one person is not enough.

Because sometimes you even go to see that therapist, and then you have a horrible experience, and then you think, okay, therapy doesn't work for me. So that is the first thing I would say. The second thing is where to start.

I would suggest, yes, definitely try to find um this is what I would personally do. Either go to a clinical psychologist, go to a trained counselor, um, always look at the credentials, try to find out what techniques they're working with.

CBT is a good place to start, but at the end of the day, even CBT has its limitations. So sometimes I find that clients or patients go to a therapist, start with CBT, and then they find out, okay, but I need something that goes a little deeper.

And then they found other therapy approaches. Try to find someone you feel comfortable with. And I think this is the most important thing.

Yeah, absolutely. And this is what I tell people too that uh it, like you mentioned before, the chemistry between the therapist and the client, and you and I come from this school of thought, that this is the fundamental component to successful therapy.

So if you go to a therapist and you just feel like it's not clicking, it's okay to end that relationship and find a new therapist. Um, because if you're not able to get that connection with them, it's going to be very difficult to make any lasting change uh for your life.

Yes, definitely. I mean, when you go to a doctor and you don't feel comfortable with the doctor, you simply go to another one. But this is a no-brainer for most people. If you don't like a doctor, you simply don't go again, you look for another one.

Unfortunately, people don't have the same mindset when it comes to therapists. They go to one therapist and then they judge the whole experience and say, This therapy thing that doesn't work for me. And that doesn't need to be true.

You will make it true if you don't try again, but you should try again. Right.

And you mentioned something, this is a little off topic, but I think it's one of the central themes of therapy and very important to talk about a little bit. Um, you said you are in charge of your own mental health, but we know that when we are experiencing uh either a conflict in our lives or a state of depression, that we tend to feel quite hopeless.

So, what does it mean when you say I'm in charge of my own mental health when I don't maybe feel like I have a lot of control over what's happening to me right now?

Yes, definitely. I think um when I say something like that, you have to take it with a grain of salt because I'm very aware that the person who's really deep into the depression episode that they will hear that and think, yeah, right, I will now wake up and go to a therapist.

It doesn't work like that. It takes it takes some sort of build-up. But what I want people to understand is this bad things can happen to you and will happen to you. And by bad I mean really, really bad.

And when something like that happened, this is not your fault, but everything after that is sort of a chain of choices that you make, and you can make good choices or you can make bad choices, and probably it will always be a mix of both, but the good choices are the choices that will make you survive.

And at first, you know, the coping mechanisms can be wrong, you know. Some people tend to suppress, some people tend to, you know, um get very angry because they feel this is the only way how they can defend themselves and protect themselves.

But there will be at some point, there will come a situation where you feel, okay, this is a roadblock, this this doesn't work for me anymore. And when you have this realization, it's actually time to think about different options.

Yeah. And you know, we as therapists, we know that there are always choices, there are always solutions, maybe not conventional, and maybe not the best case solution, but there's always a solution. Do you think that this is true?

I wouldn't go so far as solution because solution means that you have resolved a whole situation.

Right.

Um sometimes we will have to accept and live with the fact that certain things happened, period. Right. And what do we do now? This is the question that we need to answer. I am I think I at first when I started my career, I was ignorant to the fact that some things cannot be easily resolved.

There are mental illnesses that you cannot just get rid of, but you learn to live with them. So I worked a lot with drug addicts in the beginning of uh drug addicts in the beginning of my career. And when I worked with them, I always saw the drug use as a symptoms.

No, nobody just starts taking drugs and sticks with them because they're so wonderful. I mean, yes, that happens, but at the end of the day, people always escape from something when there are any using any kind of substance.

And when you reach the the level of substance, uh substance abuse being your big love, when you have reached that stage, that means that you are hiding something or trying to run away from something. So when those people get clean or get better, yes, they can live longer lives and they can live good lives.

However, they always have to keep in the back of their heads that this addiction, this illness will stay with them forever, and they have to be very aware of it. They always have to put mechanisms in place that help them control it.

So, yes, there are certain situations in your life, and it doesn't only apply for a drug, it use other things in life as well, like trauma or you know, PTSD, especially. There are things that you will not easily get rid of, but being aware of them is what makes it better.

And I'm gonna put you completely on the spot now, and use a bit of the personal information I have about you to ask you a question. Um, tell me what your own experience in therapy has been like. Uh, I know you've seen different therapists throughout the years, uh, but what has your experience, even though you're a therapist, and you know, as therapists, we always have the tendency to want to do therapy on ourselves.

Um, and when that fails, we get up and go to a therapist. So, what has your experience being a client been like?

Um, I mean, there is no secret. Most of my colleagues know how much I hate therapy.

You give me one line and you're like, that's it, I'm done opening up.

Yes, yes. So I will say this. I always go to therapy reluctantly sometimes, but I always do because I know how important it is to maintain my own mental health, especially working myself in the field. But, and this is the big but I believe I became the therapist I would like to go to.

Right, you know what I mean? And I struggle with the fact that I cannot find another me. And I had to change my perspective on this because it doesn't need to be another me, it could be someone else who has different tools, different approaches.

It's enough if that person understands me. And for many, many years I was convinced I need to find someone who works like me the way I do and understands different circumstances the way I do. But I also, and to be very frank about it, I had to break this arrogance almost in order to find some sort of peace and find some benefit from going to therapy myself.

And what is it about therapy that you said right now you hate, or why has it been such a struggle for you? Uh, the idea of going to therapy, other than not finding a therapist who is just like you.

Yeah, that's a good question. I think I have been, it's fair to say that I have been through a lot. And if if I would hear my own life story, I would probably pause and think, wow. And I gave never gave myself this opportunity to pause and tell myself, wow, you have been through a lot.

Well done. Um, this is basically the biggest problem that I have. I was so conditioned to just moving forward, making the best out of every situation, to believe that difficulties are part of the plan and that I have to just accept them.

I think this was the most difficult part for me because then if I admit to myself, well, you have been through a lot, sit down and think about that. I would actually uh have to face the fact that the things I went through are actually quite horrible.

And I think this was the biggest thing in my life. I always thought I have to always function. And for a very long time, I had to function. I always had to do things in order to make things work for me and everyone around me until I realized I can no longer look like that.

But that took a long time. So I was, as I said, I have been in my field for a couple of years already before I noticed a change like that.

Right. And I I think that's very powerful, Iman, to admit that it's okay to not be 100% all the time. And I think it's something that people will really relate to, um, especially when you're in a field where your job is to actually take care of other people.

So, how can you break down when you have so many people to take care of?

Exactly.

Um, what would you say in your personal experiences in life has been something that has defined a big part of who you are?

No, so there are different different things that happened in my life that I feel defined me. But I think what you're asking about is the death of my father that has basically um sent me down a spiral, and my life was upside down, and everything changed from one day to another.

Um, losing my father changed my entire life. And I think um at this point I have to mention that um my father and I had a very, very difficult relationship, but was also it was also a relationship full of love and respect.

He has um shaped me a certain way to be the person I was, and when he when he was no longer around, I found out suddenly that I can no longer be the person he helped me to be.

I had to find my own version of it, and that took a very long time. So, grief the natural way grief works, I didn't allow myself that. As a result, I started grieving the death of my father years, years, years and years later.

It doesn't mean that I didn't grieve in the very beginning, but it was like slapping myself in the face and telling myself, move on, life has to go on. And yeah, that basically uh bit mean yes at some point, as you sure know.

Yes, yes. And and you know, I think um you you always you say this is a defining moment of your life, but it's a moment that you talk about actually very little. Um, do you feel that it's you've kind of moved towards acceptance there?

That he's gone, yes, definitely. There are other things um in that relationship that I have with my father that I'm still working through. Right. Um, not because um how can I put it? So now imagine you live with your parents and you clutch with your parents all the time for one reason or reason or another, and you when you are a child, you think your parents are everything.

So whether they are good or bad, you cannot really define yet what is good or bad. Everything they do is just right, even if what they do to you isn't right, and then later on, when you are getting older, you start to forming your own ideas and opinions, and then you start to clash.

And during that time, which was for me again puberty, I had a lot of um conflicts with my family generally speaking. But at the core, I always understood my father to be and my mother, uh by the way, to be very, very kind and good people.

But when he passed away, I you know sort of glorified him, um, you know, made him bigger as he was. But at the end of the day, at some point, I had to remind myself that I have to humanize him again because there was a lot of conflict that I had with him, and that conflict was suppressed in the process of grief.

And when I realized that I am not fair to him because I'm making him this, you know, this um I I idolized someone, and that was not my father. I had to remind myself who was my father, what were the good things and the bad things, so I could let go of anger, so I could let go of pain, so I could let go of so many things that went one wrong between us and settle back

to the things that were actually quite good between us. Yeah, so yeah, I I think I did well, but I'm still I'm still in the journey, I think.

Yeah, thank you for sharing that. I know it's uh not the easiest thing for you to talk about.

The funny thing is, I have never told you that in person, yeah.

No, you haven't. It only took I don't know how many years, you know, 10 years now. Um, okay. I wanna talk a little bit more about the the podcast. I know you also have a set in therapy uh Instagram account.

Yes. What kind of things do you focus on content-wise over there?

So basically, what I do on my profile is this. When I have a line in my head that is stuck and it doesn't get out for some reason, I know it's triggered because of something, I write it down, and this is probably the content itself, and then I share my thoughts related to that line.

And I think this is how my profile works. I don't overthink it, I just feel and share. So this is how it works for me, and I've been doing well that way because that's why I have been I stopped looking around me.

I just focus on me and the people who follow me and interacting with them, and that's about it.

Very interesting. So, how is it different than the podcasts? Uh, what what kind of content do you focus on differently there?

Um, I would say they go hand in hand, so they are not really different. I would say that because my podcast and my Instagram account are both called set in therapy. And in fact, many of the lines I share in therapy are set either by me or my client or my patient.

So um, even sometimes my patients say something to me, and I take this line and it triggers in me something entirely different. It has nothing to do with them anymore. It's just what this line triggered form in me, and what are my thoughts behind when I started when I share them, I try to share the thoughts I had after listening to them or hearing what they had to say.

So, in a way, uh, I want people to understand that therapy is not a one-way road. So you have a conversation with your client, your patient, and sometimes you get triggered as well. And sometimes random lines that mean nothing to them do something for you or to you.

And this is basically how it started because sediment therapy was something that I have been thinking about for a very long time. Um, and it started with the patient who said to me back in the day, I don't know how many years ago, one of my very first cases, he said to me, not every person with potential is destined to have to be something in life.

And we we are talking about someone who was immensely talented, talented to the point that I couldn't understand back then why he wouldn't do anything with his talent. And then he said that to me, and that stuck with me.

And I thought, okay, wow, I really need to share this at some point. And this is how it all started. This is the seed of set in therapy.

Okay, and what can we kind of expect from you in the future?

Yeah, as I said, I I hinted at it before. Um, I'm working on courses that I would like to um offer next year. I have some very exciting collaborations lining up, one of which is going to be with my good friend Salma.

So, I mean, this is the perfect point to say this. I have been wanting to work with Selma for the longest time. I met her when she was still in the middle of her studies, and I was pushing her to finish just so we could start something together.

And I think back then we had both no idea what we wanted to do, but now the circumstances have changed so much. We live in different countries, and I believe it's more and more shaping into something that we really want to do together.

Whatever that may be, we don't know yet, but we will definitely work together.

Yeah, absolutely. I'm really looking forward to it.

Yes, me too.

Okay, I think uh I don't have any other questions for you, but uh I'm not sure if you want to give us some parting words of wisdom.

Well, actually, I wanted to thank you, Sama, for taking the time and doing this with me. I when I thought about someone interviewing me, the first person who came to mind was you. And I'm so happy you found the time to do this with me.

All right, well, thanks. Uh thanks a lot for doing this, Iman. I look forward to having another chat with you, I hope soon. Very soon.

Hey, thank you so much for tuning in. And hopefully, you will tune in again next week. It will be another episode talking to or about clients of mine. And you can find us on social media on Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram.

The handle is always set in Turkey. Thank you so much.