The Power of Journaling with Anja Saleh

Hello everyone, welcome to the Said in Therapy Podcast. Have you ever considered going to therapy and you ended up not going? My question is why? In my humble opinion, I believe everyone can benefit from therapy. In fact, I believe everybody should go at least once in their life.

My name is Iman Tohami, and I'm a psychologist. This podcast tells you all about everyday cases with everyday people who have everyday problems and difficulties, and sometimes they carry around really deep wounds. These are their stories.

So you know, the episode today I recorded last week, and the plan was to publish it today or release it today. And this is what I'm doing. You know, I just finished editing this episode, and for some reason it feels like I recorded this episode entirely for myself.

If you sense sadness in my voice, it is because I'm sad. It was a very difficult week for me and my family, and you know, sometimes when events happen, things unfold and you are just helpless, and you just you know, you are in the observer position.

There's basically nothing that you can do at pray. You forget easily what can actually help you beyond prayer, beyond hoping, you know, beyond you know waiting. And for an entire week, I actually didn't journal. After editing this episode, I basically looked at my journal again and said, you know what, you have to write this down.

No, I'm not going to tell you what happened because it's very personal. It's not my story to tell. But what I can tell you is there are tools and things out there that can help us through bad times.

And I'm a firm believer that journaling is one of them, and this is basically why I attempted to do this episode. I'm interviewing the wonderful Anja Saleh. Trust me, I didn't I didn't plan for this beautiful conversation to happen.

I just knew that she had valuable things to say. And to be honest, it turned out to be one of my most favorite episodes to date. So I really hope that you're going to enjoy it. Because I really did.

And re-listening or listening and editing to the episode helped me a great deal. And I really, really, really hope it's going to help you too. Here we go. Enjoy.

She is an artist slash writer slash someone who uses the art of writing to express herself all the time. But as you all know, I like people to introduce themselves because I believe everybody can introduce themselves the best way.

So here we go.

My guest, her name is Anja. Hi. Hello, hello, hello. Thank you so much for having me. Um, I'm Anja Saleh. As you correctly said already, I'm a writer and an artist, and someone who uses writing to express myself.

Um, I'm also a designer, I have my own jewelry label, and yeah, I'm I'm trained as a political scientist and sociologist, and I'm the coordinator of a cute academy in Berlin that focuses on supporting young artists, young content creators.

And yeah, that's it about me.

That's so nice. I so, as I told you before, um, as a preparation for this episode, I came across your profile a couple of years ago, and I always love following you for so many reasons because your pictures always have this beautiful angle, but then there's always a thought process behind it.

So I always believe that you are because I am someone who is um I'm a very visual person. So when I see something or take pictures, there's always a thought or a feeling behind it, and then sometimes I have a feeling and then I take a picture.

So it always, you know, correlates with what I feel, and I always felt the things that you write spoke to me in such a beautiful way. Um, for background. So you are um, I believe that you your parents are from Egypt, right?

So whenever yeah, whenever you travel to Egypt, I thought, oh my god, this is something that I know, this is something that I feel. And I think the first time I actually found you, or the first thing that caught my attention was basically some sort of love letter that you wrote to Cairo.

And I was like, okay, I connect to that. So yeah, um, I just wanted to talk about the art of writing and what it means to you, and how you personally implement it into your own life to maybe make it better, sort your um thoughts and feelings.

Yes. So, first of all, thank you so much for this background story. Um, because it really like is an honor to me that people are this attentive. You kind of like always post stuff on your grid and you you think you're the only one who kind of cares.

Um but then there's people like you who are quite attentive. Um, so thank you so much. And yeah, uh, writing. Okay. So um I'm now entering the terrain of like being more of a writer, writer, as in publishing, but also writing articles and essays, um, and entering the art scene or the literature scene more and more.

Um, but how it all started is me just trying to find a way to structure my thoughts to kind of like document my experiences and things that I never felt like I could talk um talk about to anyone.

So writing for me has had like healing properties, but also um how do I even call it? It's been essential. It's not just been a choice of like, oh, I like poetry and I like literature, let's just do this.

It's literally been essential to who I've become, to how I developed, um, to me allowing myself to reflect. So yeah, that's basically how it all started. And then it kind of developed into poetry because it was more abstract, but it was also quite accessible, like coming from a working class background, right?

So other people had instruments and and lessons and all these kinds of things. Um, I grew up with a single mom, so I we couldn't really afford these things. So writing began as like this essential part of my everyday and then developed into my artistic expression as well.

And it was just practical, um, accessible, affordable. Um, yeah, all things that made me love writing and reading more and more.

Right. You know, especially when I have people in therapy sessions, I suggest to them why don't you journal about it? Why don't you use this as a tool to sort the feelings and thoughts that you have um outside of therapy sessions?

Because you cannot have therapy sessions every day, right? So I find that many people don't really understand the power of writing because they have never really tried, or they feel that this is something only for academic purposes, or they're just not interested in reading or writing.

So when I tell them, hey, why don't you start journaling? It's always first this huge question mark. So, what will this do for me? So I wanted to ask you, as someone who obviously loves writing, how do you go about it?

Especially when you know you are in a private setting, you have mentioned your poems and generally speaking, a for um art form to um express yourself, but how do you do it on a more private level? Do you have a journal?

Do you write, do you have a notebook that you use to write in um just for yourself, maybe?

Absolutely. Um, and I think this is where where it also all kind of comes from, right? So you don't just run into like writing, I don't know, poetry or essays. You I don't know, it's I'm talking very generally, but of course I I mean me.

I mean what my process looks like. Um journaling sounds for many like uh okay, so you're basically having a diary and you just write down stuff that happens to you in a day. Um, so we're all like reminded of like childhood diaries, and like, okay, so this is useless, right?

Or people have like this great anxiety around writing, like, what do I even write? It doesn't even make sense. And what I always think is like, just open the page and literally brain dump, like write down everything that is on your brain, the sun is shining through my window, I just had a sip of water, I'm feeling weird today.

Write it all down and it will flow. Like you will find your flow. It doesn't have to be good sentences, right sentences. It doesn't need to make sense to anyone but you in that moment. Um, I do journal for the life of it.

Like this is how I keep saying, this is how I keep like reflecting, this is how I try to understand myself in moments where I think I can't really access myself. This is the entrance to all the kind of weird things I do and don't understand.

Um, but also this helps me make decisions. Like without journaling, I don't think I'd have the clarity making decisions or going about my days as I want to have or as I do have when I journal. There's also times where I just don't do it because I feel like, oh, I don't have the time for it right now.

But then the time I don't spend journaling, I spend literally sitting there trying to structure my thoughts, which I could have just done by journaling. So it's also not a thing of like you have to sit down every morning uh in the sun under palm trees with an hour of free time.

No, you can just literally put it next to your bed, wake up, write down whatever you feel like in the morning. You can wake up, have your morning coffee or whatever, just sit down and take three minutes for yourself and just scribble everything down.

Journaling doesn't have to be like this very aesthetic thing that it's made to look like on social media. You don't need a bullet journal that you have to completely like, you know, organize yourself. Take whatever you have, take whatever you feel comfortable with.

I prefer blanco um notebooks, old ones, new ones, nice ones, not so beautiful ones. It just really doesn't matter.

That's so interesting, you know, um, because you mentioned the different type of notebooks. I basically have a notebook that is very old and very how can I say this? It's almost abused in a way, because it's the notebook that I use when I feel the worst.

And this is where you can find all the black holes of my soul, basically. And um, this is the kind of notebook that I use when I feel really, really bad. And then there are other notebooks that are more lighthearted, maybe they are pink, maybe they are blue.

So there is really no rule. You just use whatever you have and you just start, you know, even if it's just one uh blanco paper, you sit down and write on it, that's basically journaling. You don't need to have um very specific um tools for it to start.

It's just something that you do, you know, and even just doodling. I think this is something very important to say. If you don't have sentences or words, maybe you can just doodle and see where it takes you. This is also a form of journaling.

Do you absolutely, absolutely? I mean, the doodling part comes like very natural sometimes, right? So you're just like lost in thought and you just start scribbling down weird stuff you don't understand, but you come back to it and kind of connect it to that thought, right?

And it also increases your self-awareness. And I think this is what I really appreciate. So, whatever you're doing, it will somehow reflect what state you're at right now because you know yourself best, right? And you also know your handwriting changes when you feel a certain way, even if you didn't quite find out that you're feeling that way right now.

You start writing and you realize the heaviness of your sentences, like it's or that your handwriting, you're like, oh, wait, wait a minute. Okay, so today is that kind of day. Or you'll you'll know yourself like completely dozing off, basically, just scribbling, doodling.

So it tells you a lot about yourself. And I think what we have to keep in mind, this is not something you're supposed to share. You can, of course, if you ever feel like it, but this is something you like entirely do for yourself only.

You don't need to post this, you don't need to show this to anyone. Even if people ask, you'll just be like, absolutely not happening. Um so this is where you have like all the freedoms that you that you literally can't have on on the street or in front of other people, for example.

Write down your ugliest self, your most beautiful self, your most vulnerable self. Um like doodle the like the shit out of everything if you feel like it. Um it can be really ugly, it can be super beautiful. Like uh it's completely yours.

It's it's literally just yours. And I think it's so magic. And I wish that people would would just start and see for themselves, right? And it can make you feel so much more connected to yourself, even if everything else doesn't make sense.

At least you have that connection to yourself. I think that's so, so precious.

I think journaling, um from a very personal perspective, of course, it's it's almost like a reflection of where you are in that moment. And when you go back to reread, you will just remember almost like a snapshot, but it's words, and only for you to understand.

So it's something very intimate and personal. And as you said, you can share if you want, but you absolutely don't have to. So it's basically one of the best gifts that you can give yourself if you're open to it to try.

Yeah, exactly. So, what I also think is really helpful is that when you start off journaling, it's not gonna be easy. And I know that a few years ago when I started, I was like, oh, this is boring, or this is so hard.

What am I even gonna write down? Right. But what it really helps you to do is structure your thoughts, especially if you go back and read and see what actually helps you reading back, right? So you read something from a year ago and you're like, oh, that was helpful to reflect upon, or that was helpful to document.

And then you know for yourself, okay, maybe I can document these things more often because it's so helpful to look back for me and to see where I was at and where I'm at now. Um, it's either because you can compare or because you you've learned so much more and you can literally see the progress within your writing.

So it helps you be structured not only in your writing, but also in how you approach things, obviously, because you're basically problem solving with yourself. Um, and I'm not saying this to say this is a substitute for therapy or for actual consultation, but it is like a very good beginning.

Actually, you know, in in so many ways, I believe that um journaling in combination with therapy is basically you understanding that you're putting in the work because therapy sessions are short, and of course, you get to discuss things that are maybe heavy for you or difficult for you to revisit.

But at the same time, I always say improvement in progress happens from session to session. So that time in between how you use it is crucial. And when you journal, you basically use it as a therapy tool. Whether you go to therapy or not, people sometimes don't recognize how much power is there is in writing.

When I was younger, I remember that I so basically I have been writing all my life, so I think I had a pen in my hand um even before I went to primary school because I was so keen on writing, and this is something that I wanted to do.

And then there was a phase where I wouldn't journal as extensively. And after a few personal, very, you know, let's say it um strokes of faith, fate maybe was a very difficult time for me. I started writing letters to a spiritual site that I called God, of course, but everybody can call it however they want, because I felt journaling for myself wasn't enough or I couldn't connect that way.

So I started writing letters to that um side of me, but also to people who I personally didn't have a chance anymore to talk to. I'm wondering, do you do something similar, maybe?

Yes, but how it started is actually interesting. So I think six years ago, I was part of a workshop in which we were asked to write to a person that we would love to share with, even if that person is not amongst us anymore or has like transitioned.

And I was like, uh, okay, that's weird, right? But then everyone turned around and started writing these letters, and we all came back feeling somehow relieved, but also emotional, but also like, oh wow, I feel like I actually got it off my chest, and it really helped because I'm not just talking to myself about that person anymore.

I just wrote that person. And if you're like somewhat spiritual, whatever spirituality or faith it is that you're following or feeling connected to, you know that deceased people are not entirely gone. They're not alive, but they're not gone either, right?

So for me, this was like, oh, actually, wait a minute. Instead of talking to myself about this person, um, why don't I do this more often and just write to these people, even if they're still alive and so far away and have no way of getting in touch with them.

It is definitely helpful because you're getting things that you keep on repeating in your mind finally on paper. So you're kind of like getting them off your chest. And it's like this big task or this big relief that you just dumped on paper, and you can let it rest there because it's not gonna go lost.

Because sometimes we we're like memory, like we're we're completely lost in memory, and then we want to hold on to all these thoughts and things, and we think about that person or that memory or the grief or the happiness and the joy, and we try so badly to hold on to this that we just keep on repeating this, and and it gets this burden at some point, even if we think of nice things, but like memories

can be can be like put on paper as well, and then we can let it rest for a while. And I feel like this is super healing, or what you just said about writing to God, like instead of just having my prayers to just write them down, I realize this happens automatically when I just start writing down things, especially in times of complete confusion.

I just start writing, and all of a sudden I'm like in this conversation with like, okay, God, let me know what is this, what's happening. So um, I feel like this helps a lot because if we feel like we have to talk to ourselves all the time, I think sometimes it can add pressure to the whole journaling thing, especially if you're not used to it, or if you haven't like made the best experiences yet with it.

Um, it's maybe helpful to even have just an imaginary someone to write to.

I agree. I fully agree. I'm curious, Anja, how did writing affect your work or guide your work or maybe made a decision for you what you actually want to want to do in life?

That's a very good question. I think it's more reading that did this. And when I can read, that means somebody wrote, right? Right. Um, and for me that was a revelation, even though it sounds so simple, but we're all holding back, and self-doubts are like especially one of the number one reasons we're holding back.

We're like, not good enough, not this enough. And I'm like, all these excellent people I'm reading of, or whose books we're all reading now and loving and finding ourselves in, these are people who had self-doubts at some point.

And these are people who have writers' blocks or who didn't believe in their work at some point, and they did it, and we're grateful for it. So why wouldn't we give it a shot? Um, and then everyone has something to say, and I really firmly believe in that that everyone has a story to tell, and it's very unique, and people can relate to it because, as unique as it is, it's going to be universal in some

aspect. And this really helped me like to just give it a go and start writing, um, reading of excellent authors, but then also realizing that writing is a necessity, especially growing up under certain circumstances, or um be it like being a marginalized person for some reasons, or being in a country where you don't really agree with how things are happening, or being in a in a mental state and feeling like it's not acknowledged by everyone around

you, right? These are all reasons that make writing super essential for some and for me as well.

Wow, I just have to sit with this for a little bit and think about it because you're absolutely right. Um, everybody who published something basically wrote it. And even if you're the one reading it, the the actual work of writing basically did something for you.

It allowed you to peek into the soul of the person, even though you know maybe they didn't really share something personal or something intimate, it was basically just them manifesting whatever they had in their chest onto paper, and now you're reading it.

So it's basically this tie of events that happens and maybe helps you in a way to make your own decisions and also maybe helps you to express yourself. Also, I want to know do you have actual work that we can read that is beyond your social media?

Is there anything out there that we can maybe, I don't know, purchase or look for?

Yes, absolutely. So there's um some work that I haven't published on social media on my website, anjasaleh.com. And then there is a book coming out, hopefully next month. Uh, it's my debut poetry collection. And um yeah, I'm very excited for that.

But this is where you can read work that I haven't published at all and I won't publish for a while on social media. Um, yeah, all collected in book form. Um, yeah, I'm super excited about that.

I'm excited for that. So I will definitely check this out. Thank you so much, Anja, for sharing your story with us. I know, I mean, I could talk to you forever, but at some point we just need to make a cut because but thank you so much for agreeing and sharing your insights.

I think there are so many people out there who will really benefit from your views because, again, I think people underestimate journaling or don't really know how to start it. Um, because there are so many recommendations out there.

But your advice is basically just start, and I think this is the best advice someone can give someone who's struggling.

Yes, thank you so much for making room for all these nice topics and for having me as well. Thank you, Anja.

And I hope to talk to you very soon, maybe with another topic, another thing that you would like to share. Who knows? Yeah, it would be my pleasure. Thank you so much. Hey, thank you so much for tuning in.

And hopefully, you will tune in again next week. It will be another episode talking to or about clients of mine, and you can find us on social media on Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram. The handle is always @saidintherapy. Thank you so much.